The New Food Pyramid 2026: What Everyone Is Missing | Ep 16

Welcome to another episode of Unconditional with Norbie Schickel. Today we're talking the food pyramid. Now you're like me, you're thinking the original food pyramid. But no, there has been an update. There has been an update, my friends, to the original food pyramid that came out in 1992. And if the press is to be believed, and if many, even advocates of the new food pyramid are to be believed, the original food pyramid has been turned upside down. And today we're going to get into it.

very exciting. If you are new to the podcast, if you're new to the channel, welcome. It's good to have you. If you've been with me before, if you've been with us before, it's great to have you back. Today's gonna be an exciting episode. It's gonna be a fun episode. I've shared with you before that the food pyramid, the original one, the 1992 version, and the subsequent destruction that following that food pyramid had on my health was one of the original things that woke me up to the

Possibility that the experts can be wrong that woke me up to the possibility that Taking command of your own health your own nutrition is not only smart, but it's necessary because people get it wrong and science evolves and today we're going to talk about The revised thinking on the food pyramid

We are going to talk about what has been billed as a move towards real food. We are going to talk about what has been billed as a move towards maybe protein, maybe away from carbs, maybe away from sugar. We'll get into all that, figure out whether that is true, whether that is hype, or whether there's some nuance there. And hint, hint, there is some nuance there.

But if you followed the news coverage or any of the social media influencers on this subject, this has been described again as the food pyramid being flipped upside down, completely flipped upside down. Let's just, I pulled up a couple of headlines just to give you a sense of this. Beef tallow, long a health pariah rises to the top of the food pyramid. That's from the New York Times. New dietary guidelines urge less sugar.

more protein and to make a nod to beef tallow. That's from CNN. This last one is from NBC News. RFK Jr. rolls out new dietary guidelines backing more protein and full fat dairy. Okay, now I picked these headlines for a reason. They emphasize meat, they emphasize protein, they emphasize dairy, and there's this nod to beef tallow. beef tallow I assure you is not

the original food pyramid. So you get where some of the energy, some of the interpretation is coming around this new food pyramid. That it is meat, it's dairy, it's eggs, it's everything that the original food pyramid wasn't.

Norbie Schickel (02:59)
Let's get into the why for this episode. Why talk about this new food pyramid? What's the context here? Why does it matter? Now if you've been with me before, you know that I love talking about the context. I've said it before, I'll continue to bang this drum, that the context is often what is missing in so many of these discussions. Not just about health, about fitness, about nutrition, but it's often what is missing from

intelligent debate. And I think missing the context makes it more difficult to come to reasonable conclusions. There's never going to be, especially when it comes to nutrition, least this is my own view, a perfect answer. But in order to get to a more perfect answer, context really matters.

I've said this before, but the food pyramid, the original food pyramid, the 1992 version with the 6 to 11 servings of proudly at the bottom, I kind of chuckle every time I think about this because now that seems so incredibly cartoonish to most people who have significantly cut or even in some cases eliminated processed grains, eliminated

carbohydrates from their diet. I mean, this was the core. This was the base of the food pyramid. And so many people like me listened to the experts, listened to what was being billed as the gold standard science. What we were told was the way to become optimal and healthy really struggling. I mentioned this before, but I had terrible allergies.

siblings had terrible eczema. I was overweight. I was a mouth breather. I had a very difficult time normal life in some ways as a kid, especially during certain parts of the year.

And so the recognition that the experts might have it wrong and that it's not only important to do your own research, to experiment with your own body, to see what works for you. But I think in this day and age, it's an absolute necessity. I really do. I think it's an absolute necessity to becoming as optimal as you possibly can be. So the food pyramid has a near and dear place to my heart.

So that's part of the reason why I wanted to talk about this, of course, but it's much, much bigger than my own individual story. I'm not alone in this. I know that there are many people who had a similar awakening to me. But the food pyramid and these dietary guidelines for Americans, I think 2025 to 2030,

If the pattern of the original food pyramid is to be followed, then these guidelines, this new food pyramid, will have significant implications for school lunch, will have significant implications for agricultural and economic policy. We're going to discuss this in a bit more detail, but if you follow any of the conversations around the original food pyramid, I mean the original food pyramid...

6 to 11 servings of grain at the bottom, That original food pyramid has been blamed for ushering in a wave of ultra-processed foods, of metabolic dysfunction, and of chronic illness.

Now you might disagree with that perspective, but that certainly is an aspect of the critique of the original food pyramid. That the movement, say in the 1950s, 1960s and 70s, from real whole foods, foods that your grandparents have been eating for generations, you could describe them as traditional foods, that that movement really ignited with this ushering in

the demonization of saturated fats, the move towards highly industrialized processed seed oils as the primary fat source for Americans, that that is what ushered in this current situation that many of us have woken up to and thought, what is going on? That that started and was accelerated by the food pyramid.

So to me, this is an important issue. That's why I want to cover it today.

Norbie Schickel (07:36)
In this episode, we're going to talk about the changes to the food pyramid. We're going to talk about the old version, pull that one back up. And of course, we're going to talk about the new one. And we're going to talk about what some of the deltas are, what some of the differences are in looking at these two graphics. And then of course, we got to go beyond the headlines. I teed up a couple of ones that I thought were illustrative about how some people have interpreted this new food pyramid.

But we gotta go beyond that. We gotta go beyond sound bites and we actually have to look at, what does the thing say? we're gonna discuss what I like about the new food pyramid, what I was frankly surprised, that's not even strong enough, what I was shocked about the new food pyramid. And what I would prefer to see different. This is a view, I think it can be a helpful view,

we're going to tee up what I think would have been a much more helpful.

Now I've mentioned this before, but the new food pyramid has been billed as a move towards real foods. A move towards whole foods. Or at least, I think it's fair to say that's what the advocates of this new food pyramid would be. Starting with first and foremost, RFK Jr. himself. Critics of the original food pyramid, including RFK Jr. before he was in his position at HHS, have blamed the original food pyramid

as one of the chief villains in ushering in this wave of ultra-processed foods, metabolic dysfunction, of chronic illness that defines our modern health environment. And if you look at the press release that came out with the release of this new food pyramid on January 7th, I mean, this is the context. This is the justification for this new food pyramid. And I think rightfully so.

I it talks about just the incredible rise in chronic disease, the lack of fitness from everything from military readiness to spending on healthcare. I think accurately and rightfully so places this issue, this lack of fitness, lack of health as an absolutely mission critical issue for the country.

So I would certainly agree wholeheartedly with that. Of course, I would also wholeheartedly agree with the idea that a movement towards real foods is an absolute necessity. The cat's out of the bag here, okay? I am a real foods kind of a guy. I am a whole foods kind of a guy. For those that are brand brand new, if you want to hear more about my own specific thoughts on this and why I think it is so absolutely critical.

I did an episode on how to lose weight naturally and that was on basically what is the alternative to Ozempic, to GLP-1s. You go online, you talk to friends, everything is about GLP-1s and on these miracle injectable weight loss drugs. But there is another way. There is another non-pharmaceutical way to lose weight, to keep weight off, to remain metabolically healthy for life.

And at the core of it is whole foods and walking, okay? Eating real foods and walking. Eating the types of foods that have sustained humans for thousands and thousands of years. And it is only in modern, recent times, this incredibly short experiment where we've moved off of that, where we've settled and moved towards comfort and convenience and packaging and cost.

as the primary drivers for our food choices. And I'm certainly not the first person to point this out, but what we have made up for in terms of food, we are paying for in terms of health. Both from a cost perspective, Americans on average spend far less on food than most of the rest of the developed world, but we spend substantially more on healthcare. And I don't think that's a coincidence.

So I am a fan of this. Any movement from processed packaged foods, from ultra processed foods towards real foods is going to get my strong endorsement. Now that is what this food pyramid has been billed as. The question is, is that true? Has that been accurate? Do we have marketing hype here or do we really have a movement towards real and whole foods?

Norbie Schickel (12:16)
Okay, so in order to unpack that question, is this truly a move towards real foods or is this more marketing hype? You saw some of the headlines, are we all expected to eat a whole bunch of beef tallow? Is there any room for vegetarian and vegan diets? I think those are reasonable questions. Based on the headlines, it would seem no, absolutely not.

Maybe Americans are carnivore, maybe we're supposed to be paleo, something keto. And as always, the best way to understand and unpack this question is to actually look at it. of your own due diligence yourself. So let's go ahead and pull it up. What is the new food pyramid? And if you haven't been there already, I'd encourage you to check it out. You can find the new food

at realfood.gov. I like the URL. I'll tell you that much. realfood.gov. And let's do a little compare and contrast just to the graphic of the original food pyramid and this new food pyramid at realfood.gov. So right away, you'll notice that the new food pyramid is upside down. It is literally upside down. The highest...

I should say the widest part of the pyramid is all the way up at the top. The narrowest point of the pyramid, the point is at the base. So it is literally a pyramid upside down. it's a very nice and I think powerful and effective piece of rhetoric. So I applaud those who created this for that.

And up at the very top, I'll just describe it here. So this would be the widest part of the pyramid, would be protein, dairy, and healthy fats. Over on the left, over on the right, also up at the very top, would be vegetables and fruits. And at the bottom, the tiny little point would be ⁓ whole grains. Okay, now let's just describe this a little bit. If you were to just swag it, you're just to...

look at this with your eyes and say, just based on the picture, how much of each of these groups, these three groups that have been called out, should I be eating or should be part of my diet? And I think it's probably fair to say that you've got basically a 50-50 split between on the left, protein, dairy, and healthy fats, and on the right, vegetables and fruits.

those two categories are the biggest categories. They are...

80 maybe 90 percent of the the total picture here. So 80 to 90 percent of the total picture and again I'm just talking visually would be protein dairy and healthy fats and vegetables and fruit. Okay so I mean honestly that sounds kind of like paleo right at least it does to me and then at the very very bottom this remaining maybe 10 15 20 percent if you stretch

would be something like whole grains. Now, just contrast that visually with the original.

again, as I've said, at the very bottom, the base of the pyramid, the foundation, if you will, is bread, cereal, rice, and pasta. They're in all its glory, 6 to 11 servings per day. And then if you start working up the pyramid, so each of these categories getting smaller, you get vegetables.

You've got fruits, each one of the vegetables would be three to five servings per day. Fruits would be two to four servings per day. You've got milk, yogurt, and cheese, would be two to three servings per day. And then you've got milk, poultry, fish, kind of like the protein category, nuts and beans, that would be two to three servings per day. And then all the way up at the very top, it says fats, oils, and sweets, and it says use sparing.

It doesn't even give you a suggested amount, it just says, don't.

Okay, so if you're just looking at this visually, you'll notice two things, or least two things stand out to me. The first, as I mentioned, it looks like things like protein, vegetables, fruits, that should be the bulk of your diet, right away. And it also would appear that you should basically not eat very many grains, right? mean, very, very few, we're talking maybe 10 % of your

Obviously if you compare that to the original food pyramid, that's a significant departure. The other thing that stands out to me is that there are no suggested servings on the new food

So with the original food pyramid, and I've chuckled about this before, I will absolutely chuckle about it again, we can laugh about 6 to 11 servings of...

because it says 6 to 11, sir.

On the new food pyramid, it doesn't have anything like that. None of these categories have numbers with them. In order to really understand what is being suggested from a serving standpoint, you've got to go into some of the supplemental documents. These are also available at realfood.gov. And at realfood.gov, we've got things like the scientific foundation for these dietary recommendations.

And we've got this other helpful document that's referred to as, I say as it's getting pulled up, daily servings by calorie level.

which leads us to the next question. How different is this food pyramid? We've been told that the food pyramid is flipped upside down, that the foundation of the diet essentially has become meat, beef tallow. Well, in order for us to understand and answer that question, we've got to look at what it actually says in terms of the numbers. And the only way that I can see to do that is to look at the daily servings by calorie level. And here's where we get the table.

and it has the basic food groups that have been identified on the new food pyramid and it gives you recommendations how many servings per day based on the amount of calories that one might consume should I eat each of these different food groups and there are one, two, three, four, five, six different food groups in this

daily servings by calorie level. And I think the original food pyramid was based on 2,000 daily calories. So when we're making our comparison, the new food pyramid to the old food pyramid, that's what we're going to use.

in this document, this daily servings by calorie level, is I think what illustrates what most people, at least most of the people that have covered this new food pyramid, are actually missing about this new food pyramid. Okay, they're missing the point, in my view. And we're gonna drive that point home by actually going through the numbers. That also tees me up for what I believe is the greatest surprise of this document, maybe actually the greatest miss of this document.

Norbie Schickel (19:47)
Okay, so let's dive in. Whole grains, might as well start.

In the new food pyramid, two to four servings per day. Compare that to the old, six to 11 servings per day. Okay, so right away, we see a significant reduction in the number of servings of whole grains that are recommended on a daily basis.

2000 calorie a day diet. We are talking about going from 6 to 11 all the way down to 2 to 4.

So this is a significant change. Now I will say this is also a little surprising to me. mean, two to four servings of grain is still a little bit more than I would have assumed based on some of the headlines. I don't know, you tell me otherwise, but when I look at that picture, and especially in light of some of the other numbers that we're going to discuss, I four servings of grain, just for reference, that's something like a half a cup of cooked oats.

And this is all coming from the guidelines here. Half a cup of cooked oats, half a cup of brown rice, barley, quinoa, or buckwheat. Even a slice of bread would be one serving. So four servings of grain, you're talking maybe like two sandwiches in a day. I think by a lot of people's measure, that's still quite a bit. So a little surprising to me there. Let's move on. Fruits in the new guidelines?

The recommended number of fruit servings per day is two. It gives us that number specifically. Let's compare that to the old food pyramid, two to four. ⁓ So not massively different. Something like two versus two to four. Now, how about vegetables? In the new guidelines, vegetables, three. So 2,000 calories per day. Recommended number of servings of vegetables per day would

popping back to the old pyramid, three to five. Okay, so the old pyramid, more fruits, more vegetables in the old pyramid, more grains obviously, and we're seeing lower numbers.

grains, lower numbers for vegetables, although not by much, and lower numbers of fruits. Again, not by much in the New Pyramid. Okay, so it's just teeing us up for mass quantities of meat. Well, let's find out.

Let's move to dairy. This is one that I know a lot of people think a lot about. Some people struggle with dairy. Some people think dairy, especially raw dairy, has been the cure of all all their illnesses. So where's the truth? Again, I encourage you to experiment with your own body, come to your own conclusions, but let's at least look at what the guidelines say. And in the new pyramid, three. So three servings of dairy and for reference.

gives us some suggestions about what those servings might be. Might be something like a cup of milk, 3 quarters a cup of yogurt, or three ounces of cheese. So that gives you some references to what we're talking about. So three servings a day, maybe three cups of milk, some yogurt, or three ounces of cheese. Let's pop back to the original, two to three.

Huh. Okay, so if this is ⁓ meat and dairy, heavy food pyramid, well, it's not a huge change. Okay, so we went from two to three servings in the original and the new is three. So not massive. Okay, so then it's gotta be meat, right? I mean, this is where all the calorie difference is made up. It's gotta be meat and protein. Well, let's take a look at what the...

new guidelines are. The new dietary guidelines for 2,000 calories a day, three to four. Okay, three to four. And for reference, what might that be? That might be something like three ounces of cooked meat or poultry or seafood, one egg, a half a cup of beans or lentils, one ounce of nuts or seeds, two tablespoons of nut or seed butter.

or three ounces of soy. Okay, so each one of those representing a single serving. Take your daily servings, and we're talking about three to four servings of one of those examples per day. Okay, now how did that compare to the original food pyramid? Two to three servings. So maybe one more serving a day. Okay, now if you're like me, I'm just sitting here baffled at this point. I thought this whole thing was about...

meat and dairy and if I look at the graphic I mean like 50 % of it is taken up it seems by like protein foods. So what's the difference? The only thing that I can see so far is that the new guidelines seem to be recommending lower amounts of everything except for maybe meat and protein and we should be clear it's not just meat okay protein is its own category.

But the only area where we've seen a recommended increase is in the category of protein. Every other category is either the same or a little bit lower.

Now, are they just saying eat fewer calories? Right? Is this more eat less and move more? Have we just stumbled into that trap unknowingly? And no. And this tees me up for what most people are missing about this food pyramid. And I think this is very significant. Where does this difference in calories come from? Right? And we can, we will at some point in time. I know I keep saying that we will. We'll get into this whole calorie is a calorie.

law of thermodynamics and I will give you my take on it. But let's just assume that what most people understand to be true is true, that a calorie is a calorie. Well, so far we've seen a reduction in almost every category with the exception of protein. Where are those calories made up? And I'll tell you, they are made up in healthy fats. Okay?

What this food pyramid, this new one, really represents is a movement away from grain to healthy fats. That is it. Okay, it says very little in the way of delta on protein, very little in the way of delta on dairy, very little in the way of delta on vegetables, on fruits. Where you see the change is in healthy fats and whole grains. Now what does this mean?

For 2,000 calories per day, the recommended number of servings of healthy fats is four and a half. Four and a half servings. Compare that to the original food pyramid. And where was healthy fats? I even remember where it was on the graphic. It's all the way up at the top. That is the top, the tippy top of the original food pyramid, which is fats, oils, and sweets. They're all lumped together.

Okay, as in use sparingly. So in the original food pyramid, and I can attest to this personally, there was a demonization of fat and there was this idea that you should limit the amount of fat that you eat.

Little is great, less is even better. That was the idea. And anybody who grew up around the same time period can attest to that. is what's making you fat. It's even lumped in. And in this, it's got, I can't even tell what this picture is. It might be some butter, but then it's got like a cookie and a donut. So fat literally is in the same category as junk food. In the new food pyramid, let's just dive into this.

really examine what does this mean. Four and a half servings of healthy fats per day. Now just rough math, it's a teaspoon of olive oil or a butter, okay?

To me that's significant. To me that's very very significant. Much more so than emphasizing and liberating something like red meat or eggs or dairy. I mean there's no change in the dairy number just so you know. There's no change. But what this food pyramid really is doing and what these guidelines are really suggesting is that we stop treating fat like the pariah. That we emphasize eating healthy fats. Okay so to me that's a very very good thing. That was one of things

that was surprising about this new food pyramid, especially in light of some of the headlines, and I would encourage you again to just take a look for yourself. If I'm missing something, let me know. But when I look at this food pyramid and I say, what are the changes? I one, the new food pyramid, despite the graphic, it's much more balanced than you might think, certainly if you only look at the headlines. But also, if you actually start

going line by line, category by category, the emphasis is really on healthy fats.

Norbie Schickel (29:22)
Okay, now this conversation around fats is what tees me up for what I found most shocking and surprising about this new food pyramid. Okay, so what I found surprising was that, unlike what the headlines say, ⁓ when you go into the recommended guidelines, it primarily is a move towards fat, a move from carbohydrates towards fat. Now for maybe many people that have...

thought about or heard about keto or they've experimented with eating higher levels of fat, lower levels of grain, this might be a very welcome thing.

But I think what I find very surprising, and I would say shocking about this, is that based on the graphic, okay, let's just take the graphic, which is where, let's be honest, most people are gonna stop. Okay, most people are never gonna go to the serving size recommended per day. They're just gonna look at the graphic. They're gonna see, okay, this kinda looks paleo-ish. I should eat a lot of meat.

eat a lot of protein, I should eat a lot of fruits and vegetables, and I should limit grains. And maybe that's a good thing. mean, we can argue about sort of macros, but that is a little bit different than what the numbers actually say.

But also what's surprising to me about this is what's not included.

Okay, if I go all the way back to something I said from the very beginning, two things I actually said from the very beginning, that the original food pyramid ushered in this demonization of traditional fats, foods like saturated fats specifically, and we've got olive oil here too, but that the original food pyramid demonized fats, and that's part of what ushered in this wave of ultra-processed foods.

Well, the reason why this happens is because when you remove fat from food, you also essentially remove all the taste. And part of what gives our body the signal that food is nourishing, that it's filling, that it's energy dense is fat. If you remove it, it doesn't taste like anything. It's not particularly satiety inducing or satisfying to eat. And what the industry did was add sugar.

One of the things that is subtly, I would say, maybe too subtly, being suggested through this food pyramid is that we reverse that, okay? That we just bring the fat back and we stop adding the sugar. So I think that's good. I think that was surprising because it's not explicitly stated. It's not explicitly stated on the graphic and I think it should be. That's just my own sense. The other thing that's surprising is

what is not stated here and that is around the topic of food quality. Okay, let's think about RFK Jr. Let's think about some of the things that he has said in the past. Even some of his work as an environmental lawyer. He has successfully sued Monsanto, the maker of glyphosate, of Roundup. and let's also say some of his comments about synthetic food dyes and

food additives, both the linkages to ADHD and developmental issues in children, but also in chronic health. What I'm very surprised to see, not explicitly mentioned in the graphic, where most people are gonna start and stop, is anything on the subject of pesticides, anything on the subject of synthetic food dyes, anything on the subject of food additives.

if we take this to its logical conclusion and let's just run that out, if the criticism of the original food pyramid is that this is partially what ushered in this wave of ultra-processed foods, of metabolic dysfunction and chronic illness,

and that what the new food pyramid is attempting to do is make a move towards real whole foods. And I might even add clean foods, non-synthetic foods, non-pesticide treated foods. What about the graphic expresses any of that? And if the new food pyramid is what opened up the door wide for the industry to say, okay,

this is the macros that you want, we'll hit them. What about the new food pyramid? Prevents that. You know, could make the argument that, you what's shown in the picture here are real whole foods.

And I think that's a fair point, but I think the same could be said about the original food pyramid. A few examples, right, obviously the donut and cookie up at the top, but to be fair, it says sparingly. You could say maybe the cereal, right, but that's pretty much it. Everything else that's listed in terms of the picture is basically a whole food.

So to me, I think this just represents a miss. I'll just say it. I think it represents a miss in terms of educating the consumer and really orienting the conversation and the discussion about what the ultimate issue is. To me, the issue is not a macros issue. It's not a composition of fat to carbohydrate to protein. That's not what the issue is. In my humble opinion, but this is an opinion shared by many,

dove into this in our conversation on Ozempic, we dove into this on our conversation about losing weight naturally, we dove into this on our conversation about Japan. The issue is not the fact that Americans eat carbohydrates, that we're eating too much brown rice. The issue is that we're eating too much ultra-processed food, and ultra-processed food that's been laced with things like seed oils. Again, another thing, incredibly shocking not to see anywhere.

If the move is from whole grains or grains towards oils, wouldn't an explicit recommendation not to consume seed oils be very, very important? Somewhere on the graphic, again, where most people are going to start and stop? To me, that's huge. And to me, that represents a miss. I'll just say it. It represents a huge miss.

Let's take two examples here that will illustrate my point. Let's think tribally for a second. We've done episodes on Dr. Weston A. Price. Again, I encourage you to go back and take a look at those episodes. We've talked about groups like the Katavans, a group of modern hunter-gatherers today that eat a diet that's almost like 90 % basically sweet potatoes, a diet that's incredibly high in carbohydrates.

You could say yeah, but low glycemic index, that sort of thing, but it is a diet that's high in carbohydrates. And they have none of the chronic disease, the metabolic dysfunction that we experience in the developed world.

I should say, most of the developed world. Because the other area that we could talk about, if hunter-gatherers aren't your particular cup of tea, would be Japan.

Japan is the only country to become wealthy, to become industrialized,

without becoming metabolically broken, right? While maintaining the metabolic health that they enjoyed previously, maybe even improving. And how have they done that? Has it been through eating more meat? Has it been through a macro level push? Well, if it has, it's actually been maybe in the opposite direction. If you look at the food pyramid, what would be the equivalent of the food pyramid in Japan, they don't call it food pyramid, by the way.

call it a spinning top. But that spinning top, well it's upside down, relative to our original food pyramid. It has the same shape as the new one. But what would be the base of that diet, the majority of that diet, is whole grains, is carbohydrates. And in Japan, perhaps more representative to the United States than say the Katabans. Okay, fair point.

But they're eating a diet and they're getting a recommended diet that is much higher in carbohydrates than the diet that's being recommended here. So to me, It's not really a macros point. What's being emphasized in Japan is to eat significantly more whole foods and minimally processed foods and to substantially cut.

ultra-processed and walk. It's those two things. We've talked about this in episodes in the past, but it is whole foods and walking and it has worked incredibly well. So to me, I know a lot of people want to make this about meat. They want to make this about saturated fats. And I think that there's perhaps a natural and good reason for this. And then I think perhaps some of it is just the same old

wars but to me the real miss here the real missed opportunity is not to be talking about macros the real missed opportunity is that we're not emphasizing in the graphic things like ultra processed foods seed oils pesticides or alcohol I mean wouldn't have been nice to see something about alcohol right up on the graphic

And again, if you go into some of the appending documents, you're going to see conversations about alcohol, which I think are great. You're going to see conversations about sugar, which I think is important. Not so much on the seed oils, at least as far as I can tell right now, which I'm not quite sure what the significance of that is. But to me, the real thing is ultra-processed. That's the real thing. That's what Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has talked about in the past, the significant rise.

in the percentage of ultra processed foods that Americans have eaten, which has led to metabolic dysfunction, which has led to obesity, and which has led to chronic illness. I think that's great. That's what I would have loved to see in this food pyramid.

So what might an alternative of this food pyramid looked like in practice if we're incorporating ideas like ultra-processed, like food quality, like organic versus conventional or pesticide grown, or we're talking about things like synthetic food dyes? I think you could probably consider a couple of different formats that may have brought this to light.

Do we need the Japanese spinning top? Maybe not. But I think ⁓ like a simple red, yellow, green, right? Red light, green light, yellow light, something like that would have worked, right? Where we've got maybe the categories and instead of recommendations about serving size, I would have loved to have seen sort of like a good, better, best, right? That really hones in on this idea of whole

whole food to minimally processed to ultra processed from you know local and organic and farm grown to packaged to you know ultra packaged right something like that that really sort of shows what the spectrum of the issue is here again all from the lens of ultra processed because to me that is the fundamental issue a report card right I mean every every single person who

lives in the United States and has gone to school in any capacity is familiar with a report card grading system, right? An A to B to C to D to F. right? We're all familiar with that format and what I would have loved to see, what I think would have been incredibly powerful.

a very simple view that everybody is familiar with that shows this is what is sort of good, this is what is better, and this is what would be best. And use that as what's driving the selection criteria for school lunch. Use that what challenges the industry to move from say a C to a B and maybe to an A.

You know, use that to have conversations around the dinner table. You know, use that to have conversations with your friends. I mean, while I get it, you know, I don't like the demonization of red meat per se either. What I much would have preferred would have been an intelligent and informed working document that could have been used to drive the conversation around ultra-processed foods, which is what I believe is ultimately making us sick.

Norbie Schickel (42:15)
there. In summary, conclusion, thoughts on the new food pyramid? Is it a step in the right direction? I think so. I think we can say it's a step in the right direction. Would I ultimately love to see a zeroing in on what I believe is the true enemy, which is ultra processed foods and a degradation of our overall food quality, pesticides to additives to

the move from pasture raised to factory farmed? Absolutely. That's what I'd love to see. I'd love to see that next. Will we get it from the government? I'm not sure, but we're certainly gonna get it from conversations like this one. If you are enjoying conversations like this, please consider liking, sharing, and subscribing. These conversations, these topics mean a whole lot to me. I'm very, very grateful. I'm honored to be able to have these conversations.

So please help me spread this conversation far and wide. Thanks, and I will see you again next time.