What Everyone Gets Wrong About Dr. Weston A Price (Including His Fans) | Ep 28

Now, I've said before that Dr. Weston A. Price's Nutrition and Physical Degeneration is the most important book on human health and nutrition ever written. Full stop. It is an incredible study which spanned multiple years and multiple continents. Dr. Weston A. Price, a Canadian-born dentist living in Cleveland, attempted to get to the root cause behind the rapid decline in human health in the modern world of the 1930s. And while many leading scientists of the day favored race mixing as the explanation behind the rise in cavities, mouth breathing, and developmental delays in children, Price was convinced that nutrition was to blame, and specifically a movement away from real whole foods, which humanity had relied on for all of recorded history, to the industrially processed, nutrient poor foods relied on by so many of the 1930s. Dr. Price devised an ingenious study in which he attempted to find people of the same or similar genetic stock, but who were following two different diets. Those following a traditional diet, what might be described as a real, whole foods, nutrient dense diet, compared with those following a modern, industrially processed diet of the 1930s, and then assess, measure, and document the different health outcomes between the two groups. And literally everywhere he went, the results were the same. Those following their traditional diets, consisting of real whole foods, enjoyed robust health, excellent teeth, wide dental arches. Members of the communities who had transitioned to the quote modern Western diet of processed white flowers, jams, canned vegetables and seed oils, the exact opposite. Terrible teeth, narrow dental archers, and mouth breathers with poor physical development. And words can't do these results justice. Unfortunately for us, they don't need to. Dr. Price and his wife took some fifteen thousand photos as they traveled to some twelve regions across the globe, from Peru to Alaska, Central Africa to the Swiss Alps. And the pictures are truly worth a thousand words. The difference between the two groups is so stark, so unbelievable, it's honestly hard to describe in words. I've yet to find a person who has read the work of doctor Weston A. Price, who's not been moved in the direction of real, whole, nutrient dense foods. The photographic evidence is just too compelling. Now part of the reason why this book is so incredible, and that I can say definitively that it will never be replicated is because of the unique time period in which Price and his wife performed their work, the 1930s, a time in which two revolutionary technologies, the portable personal camera, commercial airline travel, made Price's incredible work possible for the first time in history. Now at the same time, the forces of globalization and the spread of the modern Western diet and lifestyle essentially served as a ticking time bomb set to destroy the long history of traditional diets, thus presenting this incredible, short-lived window of time in which a study like Price's could be performed. Price was the right person at the right time with the right technology, an incredible trifecta, and therefore this study will never be replicated. Whether you love the work of Dr. Weston A. Price or you disagree with his conclusions 100%, this book is for you. This is the most important book written on human health and nutrition ever. There is a reason this book has been in print for a hundred years, and it will be in print for a hundred more. His work has inspired many people to let food be thy medicine, including the creation of the Western A Price Foundation, an organization committed to continuing his legacy, sharing his message, and promoting real, nutrient-dense whole foods. Foods like raw milk and butter, cod liver oil, fermented foods, the importance of animal-based foods, including organ meats, all ideas associated with the name Dr. Weston A. Price, and ideas which are seeing a surge in interest today. But here's the thing. After reading Price, after actually reading nutrition and physical degeneration and seeing what Price said versus what people say Price said, I can't help but notice there are some differences, and we're going to get into them today. If you're unfamiliar with the name Dr. Weston A. Price, we're going to remedy that, and you're in the right place. But even if you love the work of Dr. Price, you know his work, or at least you think you know his work, you're going to want to stick around because you may be in for a surprise. With that, I'd like to welcome you to another episode of Unconditional with Nilby Schickle. It's great to be back. We had a couple weeks in a row of super nerd episodes in which we went deep into individual randomized controlled studies, which I believe are not only fascinating, but also important to understanding some of the claims that get thrown around in health and fitness circles. Calorie is a calorie. Exercise doesn't help you lose weight. And if you've missed those episodes or they sound interesting, okay, definitely check those out. I had a lot of fun with them and I'm happy with how they turned out. But I did promise that we'd shift gears this week, and we will. But apparently enough people like the nerd stuff because I see quite a number of additional downloads and new listeners. So that's great. Welcome to you, and it's good to have you. But today we're talking Dr. Weston A Price. And if you've been with me from the beginning, this will be a name that you're familiar with. Price's work has really influenced my thinking and choices when it comes to nutrition and human health. And I'll say this I love the work of Dr. Weston A Price, even though his is a name commonly used to invoke support for animal-based diets and used to quote debunk vegan diets, despite the fact that I'm mostly a plant-based guy. So however you eat and whatever you've heard about the work of Dr. Weston A Price, stick around, okay, withhold judgment. And at the end, let me know what you think. You know, maybe your view on price will evolve, as mine did. In fact, two of my first three episodes on this podcast were on the work of Dr. Price. And just to be clear, they're good episodes, a lot of information, incorrect, I believe, they are early episodes. So, you know, grading on a curve here. Okay, the sound quality isn't the same, the pacing, the flow, okay, come a long way since then, but still quality episodes. If at the end of this podcast you want to know even more about the work of Dr. Price holistically, definitely check out his book, give some of those episodes a listen. I'll link to both of those in the show notes. But you know, again, be kind, okay, grading on a curve here, so keep that in mind. Now, I've already teed up the fact that Dr. Price's work occurred at this incredible time in the 1930s, in which the portable personal camera, commercial aviation became widespread. Certainly unique time period in history. Now that's not the only thing that made this time period unique. Much of Price's writing and study happens just after the Great Depression. And when we assess the poor dietary choices of the average American at the time, yeah, I think we should wonder, I think we should consider how much economic factors may have played a role here. But that's not all. This is also just after the end of Prohibition, a time in American history that has been described not only as politically charged with, say, the temperance movement, but also incredibly bloody with the growth in bootlegging and organized crime. And I'll be honest with you, I've always found it incredibly odd that price really doesn't discuss alcohol almost at all in the book. Now, maybe it's fair to say that we have a greater appreciation of the negative effects of alcohol now as compared to Price's day. I think that's probably fair. Yeah, but this book has long sections on juvenile delinquency, commentary on the propensity towards crime, and the concern over the decline in moral standards of the citizenry. But on alcohol, something it seems to me would be at least directly related. And given how massive this issue was in his day, we have very, very little. And I don't know, it's just odd. And as I was reflecting on this episode, and just again, really being struck by the lack of commentary on alcohol from Price given the time period, I realized that we're also, right now, the time of this recording, in this incredible, unprecedented, and scary time that we're living through, given this war or conflict with Iran, which is ongoing. It's not clear how it's going to end. And I realize that if I don't say anything, don't at least acknowledge it, then I'm sort of guilty of the same. You know, this is not a political show. My aim is to learn and to discuss, share the journey, right? My quest to discover what is making us so sick and how to remedy that, to reclaim the radical health and fitness that I believe is our birthright. I believe that's how we were born, and to have some fun along the way. But as I'm recording this in April of 2026, and given all that's happening with the war in Iran, civilization ending rhetoric, the escalation, the property and infrastructure and lives that have already been destroyed, not saying anything, you know, not acknowledging the tragedy that is this conflict, certainly for someone looking back, I think would just maybe seem incredibly odd. So I'll just say this. Whatever your views are on the war, let us all pray for, meditate on, send positive energy for the most expedient end to this war, for de-escalation and the cessation of further death and destruction on all sides, for a peaceful end as quickly and as humanely as possible. I know I certainly am. Again, not a political show, but I don't know. I just feel like there would be something highly inappropriate about not acknowledging the incredible time period, the scary time period that we're in now. So if anyone is left still interested in Dr. Weston A. Price, we're gonna proceed. Let's get into it. And let's get into what most people get wrong about Dr. Weston A. Price, including and maybe especially those who love his work. So first, many common foods associated with Dr. Weston A Price in traditional diets, including cod liver oil, raw dairy, butter, fermented foods, properly prepared grains, maybe including sourdough bread, have been widely overblown or simply not part of the traditional diets discussed and studied by Dr. Weston A. Price. Big claim, I know. Now I said that Dr. Price traveled to some 12 different regions across the globe. But if you were to count up the tribes and I don't know how to break these up, individual groups or communities, peoples that he studied, the number would be much, much higher, right? Easily 100 or more. For example, the entire continent of Africa is one region, right? But that consists of many, many, many tribes. Some getting extensive commentary and photos from Price, and some just a few lines. And one thing that is super important to understand about Price's findings is that there is no single primitive diet, right? In his travels, Price discovered and studied people who ate a wide variety of natural foods based on local availability and obviously acquired wisdom. The isolated Swiss, as an example, ate a diet that consisted primarily of rye bread, cheese, milk, and meat, like once a week. The Native Alaskans, they survived harsh winters on a diet consisting almost exclusively of dried salmon dipped in seal oil, the basai, cow's milk and blood. It's a long, fascinating list of groups and foods and people, and people thriving despite eating wildly different types of foods. Now, despite the fact that Price observed a great variety of traditional foods and diets, there are some foods which have been commonly associated with the name of Dr. Weston A Price, and some that I'm sure you're familiar with cod liver oil, the importance of raw dairy versus pasteurized, fermented foods, including sourdough bread and bone broth. Price is often seen as a proponent of traditional diets, which begs the obvious question where did these foods come from? Which groups utilized these foods that are commonly associated with the name Dr. Weston A Price? And to what effect? And the answer may surprise you. Let's take cod liver oil, one of the key foods emphasized by many promoting Price's work today. How many groups, traditional groups that Price studied consumed cod liver oil? None. Okay, not one. Not a single group discussed by Dr. Price ate cod liver oil as part of their traditional diet. The closest thing we could say may be something like the Inuit, or what Price refers to as the Eskimos of Alaska, and their consumption of seal oil. But cod liver oil? Not one. How about sourdough bread? Bread that has been fermented, that many believe contains the probiotics and bacteria needed for us to digest the bread properly. How many groups in Price's study ate sourdough bread? None. Okay, not one. And unlike cod liver oil, something we know Price himself did advocate for, and we'll get into why and under what circumstances. Sourdough bread? I'm not sure he would have. In fact, the word fermented only occurs a handful of times in the entire 500 page book. And it's in reference to poi, a fermented tarot eaten by Polynesians. But bread, the bread that you and I are probably thinking of? Not at all. And was this just an oversight? I don't think so. I actually think the evidence suggests price would have supported maybe the opposite. One of the first groups that we hear about in Price's travel is the isolated Swiss, a group of rugged mountain people in the Swiss Alps. Their diet, according to Price, mostly bread and cheese. Rye bread and cheese. And here's the thing. They emphasize the isolated Swiss, and Price therefore emphasizes freshly ground rye berries as being very important. Okay, Price is so impressed by this, and they emphasize this point so much that Price actually purchases one of their grinding mills to bring it back to the United States. Was this sourdough bread? Unless I'm missing something, I don't think so. Now how about raw dairy, milk, cheese, butter, which has not been pasteurized, another food that we are commonly associated with the name Dr. Westonake Price, and something that advocates argue was important again to retain the bacteria for probiotics for proper digestion. What did Price find, and what did he believe? Well, we do know that Price studied multiple groups which made use of dairy from cows, sheep, and camels. Given the lack of refrigeration and pasteurization in these regions, I think it's safe to assume that what they were consuming was raw. But what did Price think? Did he have a view on raw as better? Did he view raw dairy as necessary? Was pasteurization in and of itself harmful? And as far as I can tell, the word pasteurization or any derivative does not appear in Price's writing. Now we do know that Dr. Price was a fan of dairy, and as we'll discuss in a second, it's included in what I refer to as his quote intervention diet. But he never gives us any indication that the milk was raw. And to me this is very notable, because this is just when the debate of pasteurization was starting to take hold. So the fact that it is not mentioned, just like with alcohol, I find it either odd or significant, or both. Now to be fair, if you control F and say the ebook, you will find reference to pasteurization twice, exactly two times. But it isn't the aha that you think that it is. Okay, it occurs once in the prologue and once in a blurb from another book that was printed by the same publishing company, right? Sort of promotion in the back. As far as I can tell, neither of which was written by Price, but would appear to have been written by Pottinger, an advocate of Price's work, no doubt, and Pottinger of the famous Pottinger's Cat Study, a study in which, if you're not familiar, involved feeding cats either raw or pasteurized milk and observing the results. The cats on the raw milk did well. Those on the pasteurized milk did not. So Pottinger, definitely a believer in raw milk. But Price? I'm not so sure. Now, just for giggles, I threw the question into Chat GPT. Did Dr. West Henny Price view raw dairy as important? You know, maybe I missed it. And here's where things get interesting. And this is AI, right? So take this with a massive grain of salt. But apparently, in an earlier edition of the book, mine for reference is the eighth edition, 23rd printing. Again, this book's been around for a hundred years, Dr. Price did comment specifically on pasteurization. And apparently his views were somewhat nuanced, that he believed in the absence of clean milk, pasteurization was important. But if clean milk could not be secured, then raw milk was fine. What did this mean exactly? Honestly, I don't know. Does it mean that raw milk was necessary? Did it mean that it was better? And given that this was in an earlier edition, at least it would appear to have been, was it removed? And if it was removed, why was it removed? We know that he was a believer in dairy and the importance of grass fed dairy products, including butter butter. But raw, it's never mentioned. And while we're on the subject of grass fed butter, a food in which Price himself definitely did believe in, as an important source of fat soluble vitamins like vitamin A, vitamin D, and vitamin K, how many of the traditional groups that Price studied made use of butter? Just one, the isolated Swiss. So for those keeping track at home, this is a difference. Cod liver oil, the importance of fermented grains, raw versus pasteurized butter. What Price said versus what people actually say that his work means, it's a bit different. Okay, now before heads explode here, we've got to introduce another very important thing about Dr. Price's work and a point that is often missed when people discuss his study and the results of his findings. And that is that Price did two very important things. Okay, now first, he did study, photographed, discussed the diet, dental health, overall health, right, of many people, what I often refer to as his travels. But that's not all that he did, to his credit. When Price came back to the States, based on what he learned from traditional diets, but also in an attempt to understand why traditional diets proved so superior, Price designed what I think could be, Price designed what I think could be described as an intervention diet or an intervention study. Now, this is not a perfect study. I want to cite your expectations here. Keep in mind this is like a hundred years ago. Something like five vitamins had been discovered at this point. Okay, so we're talking very, very early nutrition science here. But to his credit, Price didn't simply bring back what he learned, publish a paper, and be done with it. He tried to apply what he learned within the context of the United States. Very important. And for this, he enrolled a few children from the Cleveland area for participation in an intervention study, in which essentially Price fed them one nutrient-dense, home-cooked meal. I'll give you the specific foods in a second, and assessed the impact to their overall health and dental health. But the design of this intervention study was important. Despite the fact those on traditional diets ate wildly different foods, each group that Price studied enjoyed incredible health and vitality. Price tried to ascertain if there were certain nutrients that might be common in the traditional foods, but devoid in the modern foods of the 1930s. And maybe that was the reason why these primitive diets were so superior. And what Price also Ultimately concluded was the diets of the quote primitive people, and just to be clear, Price meant that in the best possible way, right? It was truly a compliment, were much higher in vitamins and minerals than the diets of those following the modern diet, especially when it came to fat-soluble vitamins. What he referred to as activators, but this included vitamin A, vitamin D, and activator X, which we now are pretty sure means vitamin K2. These were of particular importance. Now, why does this matter? Because when it came to designing what today we would call an intervention diet, he considered the broad context of the United States of the 1930s, what access people had to various foods, refrigeration, and I think we can assume, in light of the fact that this is right after the Great Depression, cost. So when we consider what price's work means for us today, we have to keep that in mind. If he were doing the same study today, I am 100% sure that the foods included would be very different than the foods that were included in this study. Because our access, our globalized economy, and our context is much different. This is something very important, and it's a point that many people miss about Price's work. Now, before I back that point up, let's talk about what foods Price does include in his intervention study, and we'll hear from him directly. It's a somewhat lengthy quote, but bear with me, okay? Quote The nutrition provided these children in this one meal included the following foods about four ounces of tomato juice or orange juice, and a teaspoonful of a mixture of equal parts of a very high vitamin natural cod liver oil and especially high vitamin butter given at the beginning of each meal. They then received a bowl containing approximately a pint of very rich vegetable and meat stew made largely from bone marrow, fine cuts of tender meat. The meat was usually broiled separately to retain its juice and then chopped very fine, added to the bone marrow meat soup, which always contained finely chopped vegetables and plenty of yellow carrots. For the next course, they had cooked fruit with very little sweetening, rolls made from freshly ground wheat, which were spread with the high vitamin butter. The wheat for the rolls was ground fresh every day in a motor driven coffee mill. Each child was also then given two glasses of fresh whole milk. The menu was varied from day to day, substituting the meat stew, fish chowder, or organs of animals. End quote. Did you note the emphasis on freshly ground wheat every day? Okay? So unless I'm missing something, this isn't sourdough bread. No, I should be clear. He says fresh whole milk, does this mean raw? I'm not sure. We are talking about in Cleveland in the 1930s, seems possible. Is it likely? I have no idea. But if this is raw, he doesn't emphasize it and he doesn't say it. So again, I find that odd. Now, in the book, Price presents evidence of marked improvement in the dental health and physical health of the children in the study. And I completely buy that this is the case. Okay. They were eating a very terrible diet before. I don't have the exact quote in front of me, but it was like they were eating pancakes and like sweetened coffee and some seed oils. Like it was pretty bad, even by our nutrient deficient standards of today. Okay. Nobody would look at that and say this is a very complete diet for growing children. But it is important to emphasize that this intervention diet was not supposed to be, never designed to be, an optimal human diet. Many of the foods were added to as efficiently as possible meet the nutrient gaps that Price assumed that they were missing, based on his understanding in the 1930s. This is a critically important point that is so often missed. In the intro to this chapter on Africa, Price explains why studying traditional diets within the interior of the continent of Africa is so important. He says quote, seafoods are within reach of the inhabitants of islands and coastal regions regardless of latitude. The inhabitants of the interior of a continent, however, have not access to liberal supplies of various forms of animal life of the sea. He goes on to say, and here's what's important, it was important, therefore, in the interest of the inhabitants of the United States, Canada, Europe, and other large continental interiors to study primitive people living under conditions similar to theirs. End quote. Now did you catch that? Price is essentially saying that a lot of people in the US, Canada, and Europe don't have access to seafood because they live in the interior of the country. So studying people in, say, Central Africa, hugely important. Keep this in mind, this is the 1930s. Access to refrigeration, even in developed countries like the United States, is spotty at this point. Foods like cod liver oil, grass-fed butter, bone broth, whole milk would have been foods that would have A, provided many of the fat-soluble activators like vitamin A, D, K2, while at the same time being accessible and relatively affordable for people in many parts of the United States, Canada, and Europe, countries just coming out of a Great Depression. I will emphasize again, this was never intended to be an optimal human diet, but an efficient way to replicate some of the success of what Price had discovered within a set of constraints of the 1930s. And many of these constraints are no longer an issue for the average American today. For someone living in the center of the United States in Price's day, without access to refrigeration and modern shipping and trucking, would have been very limited in their ability to, say, consume fresh seafood as an example. This is one of the main reasons Price studies the traditional diets of Central Africa, like the Maasai, to learn how they were building and maintaining good bodies without access to seafoods. Now, why is that significant? Why are seafoods significant here? You'll notice that he mentions it a couple of times. Well, that brings me to point number two, something that is often missed when discussing Price's work. In fact, I've never heard anyone discuss it, which is if Price were to pick an optimal human diet, it would likely be pescatarian, a diet rich in marine foods or what price often refers to as plants and animals of the sea, right? Something to that effect. Now, how many people who promote the work of Dr. Weston A. Price have you heard point that out? And why am I willing to say that with confidence? Well, in part, it's because of what I just pointed out that Price's intervention diet, that's my words here, is designed in an attempt to overcome what Price recognizes as constraints with respect to optimal human nutrition in a diet devoid of seafood. That's why Central Africa is so important. But it's also because of what Price writes about the individual people that he studies. There's no doubt that Price has high praise for the health and vitality of all the people that he studies who are following their traditional diets, including, say, the Maasai, who essentially live on a diet of milk and blood. Okay. They bloodled the cows, add the blood to the milk, mix that together, and that makes up a good chunk of their nutrition. The photos in all these cases speak for themselves. But I will say that after reading price, and I know it's a big ass, right? It's a 500-page book, but a lot of pictures too. Okay. But there is no doubt that the highest praise is reserved for those consuming what price refers to as liberal quantities of animals and plants of the sea, right? Something to that effect. In other words, people who are basically pescatarian. Now don't take my word for it. Okay, let's hear from Dr. Price himself and come to your own conclusions. I've got a few here. The first, quote, My previous studies have shown that wherever groups of people were utilizing seafoods abundantly in connection with land plants, including roots, greens, and fruits, they enjoyed fine physical development with uniform reproduction of the racial pattern and a very high immunity to dental caries. End quote. Okay, did you catch that? Wherever, every time, every time he sees people that are using seafoods in conjunction with a few things that can be found on land, fine physical development, et cetera, et cetera, right? And of course, we've got to remember price is writing in the 1930s, so the way he's putting things would be a bit different than the way we put them today, right? But this is high praise. Okay, but that's not all. He says of the Maori in New Zealand, quote, the Maori race developed a knowledge of nature's law and adopted a system of living in harmony with those laws to so high a degree that they were able to build what was reported by early scientists to be the most physically perfect race living on the face of Earth. They accomplished this largely through diet and a system of social organization designed to provide a high degree of perfection in their offspring. To do this, they utilized foods from the sea very liberally. End quote. Okay. The most physically perfect race on the face of the earth. Okay, this is high praise. Now I know that Price isn't saying this directly, but he did include this in his book, and he made mention of it. So clearly it's a point that he at least agrees with on some level. And these are far from the only quotes. There are many other areas, groups that are using seafoods, and Price has praise that is very, very similar. Okay, I'll give you one more. In as much as a 1930s dentist can gush about a subject, okay, Price gushes about a particularly impressive tribe in Kenya living largely on seafood, with physiques he describes as quote, magnificent. Okay. He says, quote, the government of Kenya has for several years sponsored an athletic contest among the various tribes, the test being one of strength, for which they use a tug of war. One particular tribe has carried off the trophy repeatedly. This tribe resides on the east coast of Lake Victoria and lives very largely on fish. The members are powerful athletes and wonderful swimmers. They are said not to have been conquered in warfare when they could take the warfare to the water. He then goes on to say their physiques are magnificent. End quote. And there are many, many other quotes like this, from the native Alaskans eating a diet consisting mostly of salmon to coastal aborigines of Australia. If there were one food that I am quite sure that Price would view as maybe the most important food when constructing or considering the optimal human diet, it would be seafood. And most people, including many of his modern day fans, have missed this point completely. So let's move on to point number three. Dr. Weston A. Price did not debunk plant-based diets. Now I know, I know. Dr. Price's name is often invoked in the quote, debunking of plant-based diets. And there is no doubt that Price himself did not view plant-based diets at the time as health promoting. Okay, not a fan. But is Price's work the slam dunk against plant-based diets that many of his fans think it is? And in short, no, it isn't. Unlike raw versus pasteurized, the benefits of fermentation, in which Price's views are not explicit, Price does explicitly address plant-based diets twice, okay? Two times in about 500 pages. Now the quotes aren't super long, so I'll give you them both and then we'll unpack them. The first quote It is significant that I, as of yet, have found no group that was building and maintaining good bodies exclusively on plant foods. A number of groups are endeavoring to do so with marked evidence of failure. The variety of animal foods available has varied widely in some groups and has been limited in others. End quote. Okay? So that's the first one. Again, seems like a slam dunk, but let me go through the second one and then let's break them down together. Quote, as of yet, I have not found a single group of primitive racial stock which was building and maintaining excellent bodies by living entirely on plant foods. I have found many parts of the world's most devout representatives of modern ethical systems advocating the restrictions of foods to the vegetable products. In every instance where groups involved had been under this teaching, I have found evidence of degeneration in the form of dental caries and in the new generation in the form of abnormal dental arches to an extent very much higher than in primitive groups which were not under this influence. End quote. Okay. So these are very powerful statements. And it's interesting to know that there were people advocating for plant-based diets back in the 1930s. This is certainly not a modern or a new innovation. And these quotes seem somewhat definitive. But why do I say that despite how definitive these statements are, he doesn't debunk plant-based diets? And the answer is because he doesn't provide any evidence. And I mean none. That is the full totality of Price's point about plant-based diets. We don't get a single picture of any of the people in any of these plant-based groups. We don't get a chart with any number of dental caries, dental cavities in the plant-based groups. We don't even get a name for any of these groups. What they're eating, I mean, it's just it's just nothing. Just a claim with no evidence. When he says, as of yet, I have not found a single group of primitive racial stock which was building and maintaining excellent bodies by living entirely on plant foods, what exactly does this mean? That he found primitive races attempting to live on plant foods with poor health and poor outcomes? Or that he attempted to find any but didn't. Even that statement in and of itself isn't clear. He does go on to reference some modern advocates of a plant-based diet and claims that their results have been pretty terrible. But again, not only do we not get a shred of evidence to back up this claim, not a single group named, but it's also a compared to what? We're talking about a modern diet, modern plant-based diet of the 1930s. The standard diet of the 1930s, if we were to use how we would describe it today, was admittedly terrible, right? Basically processed flour, seed oils, jams, sugar, and canned goods. How did the plant-based version of that diet fare? I would assume pretty terribly as well. My point is not to say that Price is wrong about plant-based diets of the 1930s. He probably is right. And you're probably inclined to agree with him if you're a fan of his work. But as a thought experiment, consider the following. Suppose some plant-based doctor presented a similar case in which he or she claimed that after studying a number of populations, that he or she had not found any evidence of any group following a mixed or animal-based diet with immunity to cancer. No evidence provided, no list of groups, just a bold claim with no evidence. I mean, they might be right, they might not be, but if we're trying to be honest and fair-minded, regardless of our own bias, statements like that would lead to more questions than answers. Now, is Price right about plant-based diets? Maybe, maybe not. Okay, but the case that he has presented, at least in the version of the book that I have, is just so incredibly weak. Okay, it just is. If we're being honest and the shoe we're on the other foot, I don't think that it would be fair to say that price debunked plant-based diets. Okay. Maybe I'm missing something, uh, but that's my two cents here. Let's talk one more. And this one is not so much a misconception as it is a surprise that price's views are not made explicit. I've hinted toward this, and that's on the topic of alcohol. Now, at the time of this recording, alcohol consumption in the United States and many other places in the developed world is in the midst of a decline. From 2021 to 2025, the total consumption of alcohol in the United States dropped by about 8%. A majority of Americans, now 53% according to Gallup, now believe that even moderate drinking can be harmful, with some of the biggest drops among young people, a group which historically has been strong consumers of alcohol. We are in the midst of a potential sea change when it comes to the health implications and our understanding of the health implications of alcohol. So if a price, so if a study like prices were done today, there's no doubt that topics like alcohol, diabetes, obesity would have been noted by the researchers, like topics that are very important from the perspective of what we're dealing with today. But here's the thing: prices writing in the 1930s. Again, this is just after the end of Prohibition, which occurred from 1920 to 1933. And although Price's timeline is really, unfortunately, not very detailed, we do know that his travels to the isolated Swiss happened in 1933, the year of the end of Prohibition. And Price barely mentions alcohol at all. Something I just find odd. A quick search in the Kindle version has the term alcohol, actually alcoholic, showing up twice. Okay, and it's not in reference to traditional populations. This is in reference to, I guess, sperm quality and his more commentary on culture and juvenile delinquency, et cetera, et cetera. So we're not talking about alcohol as problematic in and of itself. The word wine occurs five times, mostly in reference to the isolated Swiss. And it's not clear whether Price's views on wine or alcohol are harmful or helpful. Again, it's just surprising and a bit odd given the subject and the time. I think we can make some assumptions about Price's position based on what we know. Sure, and this I think the same probably does go for raw dairy. And if I'm being honest, with time, probably sourdough bread. Okay, I don't mean to pick on people's sourdough bread. But I think you get my point here. I am a massive believer in. As best you can, read the actual sources, and what you find may surprise you. What other people choose to emphasize may be very different than the impression that you get. Reading Dr. Weston A. Price is one of the things that personally convinced me to incorporate the use of seafoods into my diet, okay, and to incorporate the use of even some more exotic foods, like cod liver, the actual cod liver, right? Not cod liver oil, because that's what Price finds that people on his studies are actually eating. Now, what your conclusions may be might be entirely different. Am I saying that Price would not have believed in raw dairy if he were alive today? No, I don't think so. I think he probably would view it as very helpful. But what I want to point out and really emphasize here is that the things that are often missed in the conversation about Dr. West and A. Price are what people are what keep people focused on this very narrow set of foods that, while helpful, might not actually be the most helpful foods that price would point to if he were alive today. They were based on a set of constraints, constraints of the 1930s, never designed to be an optimal human diet. And if we are living in a world that is free from those constraints, or at least many of them, the question is, what would we do? What would Price do or suggest if he were alive today? And I'm betting that his recommendations would look much, much different than those promoting his work today. Just my two cents. Okay, let's go ahead and wrap up for today. As always, thank you for the listen. If you are enjoying the show, please like, share, subscribe, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and now YouTube. Okay, YouTube channel is up. Unconditional with Norby Schickle. Definitely go check that out. Uh I've got limited video at this point, uh, but for sure, check that out. And more to come on that as well. Thanks, and I'll see you again next week.